RE: Looking for our 1st Toy Hauler
I bought a Fuzion 2008 in January. The list of repairs and things wrong goes on and on. This is my first trailer, so I have nothing to compare it to, but I can assure you Keystone's quality control is very poor. I am told Keystone is one of the better units (that's why I bought one). It is currently in the shop for its fifth warranty repair trip. Each trip takes from two to four weeks to get it back. So the dealer has my unit more than I do. The factory has been good to honor the warranty claims, but poor in dealing with me directly. I think their marking department tells them that repeat customers are not necessary to success. Having said all that, I love the lifestyle. I keep telling myself, it is just a "thing," and "things" can be fixed. I hope to use it someday for an extended period. Good luck on your purchase.
RE: 2008 FUZION 362 HEADS UP
I took delivery of a Fuzion 362 in January, 2008. Major defects were: water pump and fuel pump were inoperable. A/C unit not secured, causing leak in roof. Two additional leaks - behind refrigerator and under couch. Dual A/C's were wired to same side of panel. Had to be rewired. Numerous minor things. Purchased over internet, sight unseen from Lakeshore. No dealer prep that I could see. Local dealer is excellent and Keystone honored all warranty request. I have had the TV off the wall, been in the panels, etc. - not seen any sawdust, but I would say quality control is very poor. Having said all that, it is now fixed and we are really enjoying it.
RE: Buying from a Distance
Murgatroid, if it is not too late, get "FOB destination" in writing. This is what they say, but it's not in the contract. Other than physical damage and missing items, you have no cause for concern -- Keystone was honorable with all my warranty. My local dealer made about $3,000 on the warranty work. I found talking to the salesman after the contract was signed to be nothing more than using him as a messenger to the service department. Basically, I think both Lakeshore and Keystone have good people, but they sure do need lessons from the Japanese on quality control. I am involved in local motorcross riding. Most toyhaulers in our club are Raptors and most owners are satisfied. I talked to a lot of service departments prior to purchasing, and general consenus was Keystone is the best company. I could not use the unit until about two months after receiving it due to needed work, but I got a good price. I would close by saying expect some major issues, but expect Keystone to take care of you through the local dealer. In my opinion, Lakeshore's only value is in getting a good price. It's just a piece of equipment, and it can be fixed. Like me, you bought it to have fun. Good luck.
Buying from a Distance
I have had my 08 Fuzion 362 for 4 months. My way of saying thanks to all those that posted on this website who helped me with my purchase is to let you know my story. The end of the story is I love the unit, and it is now all fixed (as far as I know). It arrived with physical damage (a scrap down the side). Water pump and fuel pump had to be replaced. Hot water heater wired backwards. A/C unit not secured, roof leaked around A/C. Water leak under couch, water leak behind refrigerator. Unit was shipped without power cords. Nails sticking through carpet, screen door and paper towel rack had to be adjusted. Both A/C’s were wired to the same side of the circuit panel, preventing the use of both A/C’ at the same time. Vent covers not installed on unit as ordered. Brakes on wheels had to be adjusted as one wheel locked before others. Lakeshore would not agree to repair the physical damage, but they did put pressure on transport company who did pay. They honored all other request. Obviously they did not prep the unit prior to shipping. Keystone was good about honoring the warranty work. According to the forums and other research, Keystone is the best in the business. Wow, it says a lot about the industry. Very poor quality control. Bottom line -- if you purchase long distance, I recommend picking up the unit and getting it at a price that makes it worth the trouble. I am now having a ball with the unit. It took four months and three trips to the shop, but like all things -- they are repairable. Thanks again for all your help.
RE: Fuzion 393
Well, I just ordered a 362; not here yet, but I have four months experience dealing with dealers. One dealer gave me a piece of paper that said the list price on the 362 was a little over $80k; he was going to make me deal at $52k. At the other end of the spectrum, call Lakeshore, RV Wholesalers, Couch. I have read there are a couple of other dealers near the manufacture that are willing to make a few bucks and send you one. I had no trouble finding dealers locally that wanted my warranty work. Warranty only last a year at the dealer; after that you go just about anywhere. This industry is full of "not so honest" dealers; buyer beware. The manufacturers seem to have matured. I got great information and assurance from Keystone. I liked the people at I talked with at Forest River. I met and talked with a few dealers I liked, but Steve at Lakeshore gave me the best deal, and the factory assured me Lakeshore was legitimate. Good luck. PS NADA January edition list the dealer cost for new models. Cost about $100; same book the dealers use.
RE: fuzion 302
Just FYI, Lakeshore's starting offer was better than anything so far posted. I still haven't taken delivery yet, but so far so good. I'll post after I receive it. Personally, I would like to see better standards in the industry. The new RV business is worse than the "we-tote-the-note" car lots. Dealers are entitled to a reasonable mark-up, but one consultant told me about one dealer that literally made $25,000 on one unit. Current dealer cost is from 40 to 50 percent of list. Contrast that with a new auto.
RE: fuzion 302
Wow, I just ordered a Fuzion 362; give Steve a call at Lakeshore RV, check with RV Wholesalers, there are a couple of other places as well. $48,000 for a 362 was too much. I was quoted below $46,000 by a couple of dealers, but Lakeshore gave me the best price. I checked with the factory; they say Lakeshore and RV Wholesaler are good dealers. Haven't taken delivery yet. If you wait a couple of weeks, I will be able to give you my opinion if Lakeshore lives up to what they say.
RE: NADA prices
Go to the NADA site and buy a subscription to the book. It's a little over $100, I think. They publish 3X a year. It's the same book the dealers use. Dealers buy units "behind" the wholesale book value. Here's why: Banks and lenders will only loan money a little over wholesale value because they are not in the business of taking risks. If the bank has to repo the unit, they want to be able to take it to a wholesale and get their money. Dealers know to move the units fast, the customers have to be able to get financing. This industry has a lot of hype in it. Spend time to learn the system. I just ordered a new unit. I got it for less money than used units are going for in my area. Good luck.
RE: Confused - Looking for simple answer
Thanks for information. What you are saying is pretty much what I have been finding. Maybe it's not such a big decision, just seems like it. I plan on getting two ATV's, probably Kawasaki's, and I already have one KX 250F. Have hunted for years, but don't do that anymore, so this is kind of a replacement activity, but hopefully more year round. Don't really plan on any other toys. I think a 12 ft garage will be fine, but I do want a wall between the toys and living area. You are correct, the dealers are not too much help. Each thinks his is the best and the others are junk. When I ask specific questions, I get a lot of "I don't knows." They haven't been to helpful with what I think is true information. I just learned there is an RV show Dallas in January. Think I will wait until then. It'll give me more time to read the forum, look around and think about it. Thanks again.
Confused - Looking for simple answer
Can anyone recommend a good book or some place to do quick research on selecting a TH? I am new to RV'ing, wanting to travel one week at a time exploring national parks and places to ride ATV's and dirtbikes. TV is 2003 GMC 4X4 Diesel 2500 - everthing else will be newly purchased. I have read that some places don't accept TH, some people like shorter ones than longer ones, on and on. Many mfg, too much choice. Been reading forum for a couple weeks - just too much data to absorb and get comfortable with a decison. Budget in the $40k to $50k, if convinced it is a good value.
Suggestions really appreciated.
